Posts by drew sagan

36

I'm Finally Registered!

by SuspiciousMinds in

jw
friends

wow - finally!.

after several months of reading this forum daily, i'm finally registered and able to post!

i know many of you well from reading current threads almost daily since last summer.

Jehovahs Witnesses - Mainstreaming, Like It Or Not

by metatron in

jw
friends

it used to be that pioneers supported themselves with free literature and magazines and put in 100+ hours a month.

then 90, then 70.. a publisher had to put in at least an hour a month to be counted.

now 15 minutes.. they used to hand out a written review and collect it and grade it!

drew sagan

I don't think that is going mainstream, rather I think it's just cutting back activity.

Going mainstream would imply that they are actually adapting their message and practices for the current times. This is not happening. They have no dynamic services, their leadership is old, they have nothing for young people, the roles of women are still stuck in the kitchen, and they have yet to veture out of printed media (the internet is here people!)

Cuttin back, yes. Going mainstream, no.

Going mainstream may come in the future, in fact, I think it has to for their survival. Time will tell if this is the beginning of that process.

9

The Watchtower's big chance to grow

by I quit! in

jw
friends

are anymore people attending meetings due to the bad economic condition of the world right now?

from what i read here i don't think they are.

if they can't grow in this environment i think they will even get smaller when things get good again.

drew sagan

IMO I don't think the Watchtower can really use this kind of an enviroment to grow as much as they could have in the past.

I think most of the growth during times of "excitement" had much to do with the actual levels of excitiment going through the membership. Just look at how fanatical people got for Rutherford. They equally got as dedicated in the 50's and 60's. Then the late 60's came with the predictions of 1975.

Post 75 the Watchtower got it's members excited by end times and world events by resting on the 'generation' argument. Now that is gone and there is a vaccum. The members don't have such a immediate rallying point.

What was once new and exciting had now become a tradition an routine that has lasted for over 100 years.

The religion grows, but it is no where near as welcoming to new members. Additinally the United States (and many other western countries) have been trending towards a more pluralistic/non-religious attitude. This is not that conductive to their message.

32

Guys how old were you when appointed anything???

by oompa in

jw
friends

i was 19, a pioneer, and a mini-serve.......first literature, then territory, and account servant at 21.....of course a janitor/window washer too (not that there is anything wrong with that!...it paid well!

).....i turned down elder as i am very non-judgemental....but almost did it so i could let everyone off in committees......geeze how i wish i had been in in college gettin laid............oompaundercover inspired this thread btw........

drew sagan

I made Minesterial Servant at age 17. I was a pioneer at age 18.

I eventually stopped pioneering and after I got married moved to a new KH where I never was quite sure what my MS status was. I did accounts for a while but the Elders never explicitly said I was an MS. Eventually they told me that I actually was an MS, but that I would not longer be one. The feeling was mutual, I was getting pretty sick of the whole thing and was happy I no longer had those responsibilites.

I walked away at age 24 btw.

41

Letting go, does it really ever happen as an X- JW?

by restrangled in

jw
friends

i have been here over 2 years, some of you for many more.

i come and go with postings.

there are so many fighting history with current marriages to jw's, time put in as elders or what ever title you held.. some of us grew up in the worst possible time period,....description is not always possible here.. sometimes i feel we can;'t get beyond it.....we just keep talking about... is that bad or is that ok?.

drew sagan

Jehovah what now?

I've pretty much moved on in my life, but like to talk about JWs every once and a while so I stop back. It was a good 7 years of my life and I learned a lot about it. Additinally my wife still has family in the org so I like to stay up on what is current. If I had no connections to the WTS then I think I would just forget about it altogeather. Either way I tend to let it all have little effect on my life.

37

Jehovah's Witnesses NEED To Feel Special About Themselves

by minimus in

jw
friends

being a witness is like belonging to a club.

certain "qualifications" are needed to get into the membership.

and like most clubs, there are different levels to establish how low or how high you are on the totem pole.. for many (without a life) being a witness puts you in a category above anyone else.

drew sagan

Being a Jehovah's Witness does in fact fill a number of basic human needs including filling the desire for self importance and purpose. No real shame in that. Of course, I can think of many other things that can bring the same level of satisfaction without all the headaches!

35

Did there ever come a time where the meetings became unbearable?

by RULES & REGULATIONS in

i try to attend about 3 sunday meetings per month just to keep my whole family from disowning me.

every week the meetings become more difficult to attend.. the singing is awful,the prayers are all about the ''faithful and discreet slave''.the talks are boring and repetative.the watchtower study reminds of trained seals at the zoo where they do the same tricks over and over just so they can get their treat of fresh fish.

the answers are short and read off the watchtower magazine word for word.

drew sagan

R&R,

I know exactly what you mean, but I think it's important you keep a clear head about things. I remember feeling exactly the same way, it got to the point when I felt like I just couldn't take it anymore, I was screaming in my head, telling myself it was so awful

These things make you feel like you are trapped, inside a world of crazy people who can't see what they believe is ridiculous. You just want to grab your family and run right out the door.

I give you this advice. When I was feeling the same way I made some pretty rash decisions. If I had to do things over again I think I would have taken a lot more care in the way I did things. Everything turned out ok for me (not great, but ok), but I still think I had an overreaction to how "bad" it was. Yeah, the WTS is wrong and it sucks to sit through those meetings. But make sure you do not let the frustration of all those things drive you to making rash decisions.

When you are in that situation it's best to think long term. The most important thing at this point is that you don't believe it anymore (congrats!) and that it holds no real power over you (it may have power over family, but not you!) You do not feel the guilt and shame they try to layer upon you. Take advantage of your freedom and recognize that it's a huge improvement over were you were when they had your mind trapped.

When you first learn it is not the truth your gut reaction is to run for the hills. This can put family relationships in a bad spot. Think long term about how you deal with people, balancing your need to get out of there with your families own feelings.

22

My Witness Mom Asks " What Doubts Have you Had ? " - My Honest Reply

by flipper in

jw
friends

even though my 82 year old witness mom has been a jw since 1951 - we have always been close, able to talk about anything as she is not your typical mind controlled witness - she is reasonable and values family over alleigance to the wt society.

in my 5 years being out of the witnesses as a fader both her and my elder dad have respected why i stopped going ( initially over injustices by elders ) and later as i've told them , the child abuse issues , view of higher education, etc.

so when we were having a friendly mom to son chat - my mom opened the opportunity for me to share more about my doubts - and you guys know me - i carefully dived right in.. it started by my mom expressing concern over my fading witness niece blaming her witness parents ( my sister & husband ) for her problems as an adult .

drew sagan

I agree. I also think it was excellent to separate the Watchtower organization, it's policies and practices from the "actions of Jehovah".

When the witnesses says "Jehovah will take care of it", what they mean to say is that in due time it will be worked out inside the organization, but it's a mystery as to how exactly that might happen. They also are trying to ignore the possiblity of failed organizational policies by pushing the burdon over to God. Of course, if they actually have to face the reality of the problem and the probability of it being resolved within the organiztaion they tend not to be so optimistic. It makes them look at the organization, and just the organization, without using God as an excuse for bad behavior.

22

My Witness Mom Asks " What Doubts Have you Had ? " - My Honest Reply

by flipper in

jw
friends

even though my 82 year old witness mom has been a jw since 1951 - we have always been close, able to talk about anything as she is not your typical mind controlled witness - she is reasonable and values family over alleigance to the wt society.

in my 5 years being out of the witnesses as a fader both her and my elder dad have respected why i stopped going ( initially over injustices by elders ) and later as i've told them , the child abuse issues , view of higher education, etc.

so when we were having a friendly mom to son chat - my mom opened the opportunity for me to share more about my doubts - and you guys know me - i carefully dived right in.. it started by my mom expressing concern over my fading witness niece blaming her witness parents ( my sister & husband ) for her problems as an adult .

drew sagan

My mom asked, " Well, don't you think Jehovah will hold those elders accountable for the wrong actions they committed unjustly towards you ? " And I replied, " Yes, Jehovah may hold them accountable mom, but the Watchtower society will never hold them accountable for their actions ! " Then she said, " Well, you may have a point there. "

Mr Flipper, that may just be the best argument against the Watchtowers "let Jehovah fix it" response I have ever heard. Just a wonderful comeback. I'm saving that one!

9

Got an e-mail propaganda from "Knocking" director

by Gerard in

jw
friends

knocking update.

february 2009. .

in this issue:.

drew sagan

I pretty much agree with OnTheWayOut. It pretty much seemed to me that Joels main goal was to use this subject as a way to try and break into the film business. Didn't really work out that way. It was a mediocre film, the style did not match the subject, and it ended up being shallow and bland.

The biggest failure of the film (from strickly a techinical film making standpoint) is that Joel confuses "Jehovah's Witnesses" the adverage member with "Jehovah's Witnesses" the billion dollar religious corporation.

To show the lives of a few members is not to examine the entire reigion. There was almost no discussion whatsoever in the film of the Watchtowers theology, teachigns, ect.

I like to compare his film to the film that appears around the same time about the mormons. It aired on PBS in two parts and was extremely comprehensive. It followed the entire movement, talked with current members and those who have left, and was just a good film all around.

But to just profile some members leaves out all of the history of the group, and you really can't even begin to understand the JWs apart form their history.

In the way Joel has marketed his film he has tried to make it appear that it is a comprehensive view, but in reality it is very narrow.